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Thoughts on paying down loans

 
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Mark Laszczuk
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Thoughts on paying down loans

I know this is going to be anathema to a lot of people here, but it's a topic I'm interested in exploring. I'm the kind of person that likes to pay down loans, whilst at the same time borrowing for investment. Basically the idea is to use spare cash to pay down a loan until it is fully paid out, whilst at the same time using equity to purchase further investments.

I like the idea of fully owning the assets. I may not end up with zillions of dollars worth of assets over time, but I personally am more interested in attaining cashflow for lifestyle right now rather than attaining bragging rights about how much my assets are worth and having to deal with large amounts of debt when I'd much rather be chasing adventure.

Now, I know full well that wise investors manage their loans and take calculated risks to ensure that they have a safety net (this is what I do myself, cause you know, I'm a very wise person). At the same time, I look to successful businessmen and observe how they run their businesses and try to emulate what they do. What I have found is that in a lot of cases, they actively pay down debt in order to reduce the risk. But at the same time, they also aren't afraid to use the power of leverage, so it's a balancing act.

I know it takes an element of risk to be successful, but I also believe that the mantra of 'high returns means taking on more risk' is nonsense. I believe that the more one understands an investment strategy, the less risk they take and the higher the chances of attaining better returns. Warren Buffett is a great example of this - 20%+ compounding returns over several decades all with a strategy that reduces the risk as much as possible. His investment style, once understood, is quite conservative yet he has achieved returns that are better than anyone else in history has been able to achieve over a similar timeframe.

This way of doing business - because let's face it, owning investments is a business whether you like to admit it or not - makes a lot of sense to me.

The reason I've been thinking about this a lot lately is mostly due to what's happened with credit and a lot of businesses, particularly in the property sector really taking a battering because they can't afford to hold assets and not being able to refinance, therefore they have to sell assets and they can't even do that! So now they're in a lot of trouble, simply because they didn't look ahead during the good times. Basically comes down to poor money management. Makes you wonder how, if the pro's don't do it, how the plebs are going to cope.

My own situation is ticking along very nicely, thank you very much and I'm very comfortable at this point in time, able to take advantage of opportunities as they arise and I believe it's all because I actively pay down debt. Now I know it's not everyone's cup of tea and it's only one of thousands of different strategies out there, but it works for me.

Mark
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This is a general comment only and does not constitute advice. Before making legal or financial decisions you should seek advice from a professional adviser, who can take into account your specific circumstances and investment goals.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
Smartypants
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Also like the idea of reducing debt.

On IP's, all loans are IO, but once they next reach that point of expiry (i.e, IO period), instead of refinancing again, I may let them convert to P&I. By that stage, I'd like to think that they will be cashflow positive, so not costing me to hold.

Re shares/mgd funds, I've touted here before that I believe in reducing my margin loan (also have borrowings from LOC's). My reasoning may be a bit different though. Eventually, I want to (will be) be in the position of living off distributions (and rents) and I don't want to be paying interest at that stage, even if it means paying tax.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
BV
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Mark

I don't believe in paying down my loans.
I believe in borrowing to the max and letting the magic of inflation doing it's trick.
However, I think that paying down loans could be good for people who have difficulties saving money.

Cheers
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
crc_error
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Not sure if I should share what I do, as we all know you keep your own cards very close to your chest, however I do pay down my loans. I have a 100% offset which each week put a large part of my wage into as forced savings. then once it builds up, I will take some of it and buy up more assets.

I'm not scared of debt, but I also believe in manageable debt and a cash buffer which should be growing every day.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Alan
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Originally Posted by crc_error View Post
Not sure if I should share what I do, as we all know you keep your own cards very close to your chest, however I do pay down my loans. I have a 100% offset which each week put a large part of my wage into as forced savings. then once it builds up, I will take some of it and buy up more assets.

I'm not scared of debt, but I also believe in manageable debt and a cash buffer which should be growing every day.
Hi Mark.

I also like paying down debt, BUT using the 'balancing' analogy.........

On one side of the see-saw there's me who likes paying down debt.......on the other side I have a wife and two daughters. For the time being I'm forgetting about paying anything down!
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
BV
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Originally Posted by crc_error View Post
Not sure if I should share what I do.
share it share it
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
Jacque
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Hi Mark.

I also like paying down debt, BUT using the 'balancing' analogy.........

On one side of the see-saw there's me who likes paying down debt.......on the other side I have a wife and two daughters. For the time being I'm forgetting about paying anything down!
Haha Alan!! I can relate- though with two daughters and a son who eat as much as hubby and I do, it's getting expensive!! Remember the good old days when a bowl of noodles or a vegemite sandwich kept them going for hours?!

The only debt I'm interested in paying down at the moment is our new PPOR- the most essential one, naturally. However, if I didn't have any non-tax deductible debt, I'd be looking at reducing investment loans- have done in the past and will do again when the time is right.
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This is a general comment only and does not constitute advice. Before making financial decisions you should seek advice from a professional adviser, who can take into account your specific circumstances and investment goals.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
Waimate01
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Debt .... bad (but sometimes handy for very short periods)

Net Worth .... good.

Negative gearing .... loss making - bad.

Positive gearing .... cash making - good.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
Sim
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Originally Posted by Waimate01 View Post
Debt .... bad (but sometimes handy for very short periods)

Net Worth .... good.

Negative gearing .... loss making - bad.

Positive gearing .... cash making - good.
I think that's an over simplistic view of things.

Debt used to buy anything other than investment assets = bad

Negative gearing = bad only if you aren't making enough growth on average over time to more than cover the holding costs

Net Worth = meaningless

Equity = useful but can be difficult to buy food with

Cashflow = good and important, but usually not very tax effective on its own
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
Waimate01
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Gross worth = meaningless

Net worth = reality

If the music stops and you have to put all your pennies in a pile after liquidating your investments and paying down your debts, what you're left with is your Net worth. Net worth is the only real measure of your financial wealth. If you've got $5m worth of property and $5m worth of debt, and a $100k income and losses of $80k a year before you buy your daily bread, then guess how much you're worth -- nothing ! All you've got is a punting position; nothing more.
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