Hi there. Some study advice needed No.2

I didn't paraplan, but we don't have them in our company, but looking at some of the plans clients brought in for me, i had more knowledge anyway than a lot of paraplanners (thats not to say there aren't some brilliant ones out there, and i think i would probably make a good paraplanner, but moneys better being a planner????). BUt even so, it took a good 6-9 months of seeing clients before i felt comfortable on a day to day basis. It's a really big change in mentality giving advice, and a lot of people just won't make it.

SO what i'm saying is yes, some paraplanning experience would be good, but it's not 100% necessary.

Hey Benny,

I guess it's possible to head straight into a FP role depending on where you work in. I would try to avoid a pure selling role (i.e. Banks FP, no offense there who work as one) and have more preference toward strategic advisory type role with little investment restriction.

As for the big change in mentality, I should be quite prepared for it since I'm way too extravert to be an engineer.

Hi Temjin,

I understand where your coming from in relating to banks.

A month or so ago I saw a prospective client about setting up a super fund. They went on holidays so I hadn't heard from them for about 4 weeks. I was the first bank planner they saw and they did say to me from the start they are shopping around.

I heard back from them about a week ago, they said they were very surprised after speaking to competitors planners who only wanted to sell them product. They had also investigated going with an industry fund and setting up a smsf. They had explained to me that they were extremely happy with how our meeting had gone and that the meeting was about superannuation and pension strategies which were relevant to them (no product mentioned for 2.5 hours!).

After being pleasantly surprised for a few seconds, I was even more chuffed when I realised that it had meant this client valued the advice that I had given him above other financial planners, what industry funds could do for him and also the work which he would have to do for a smsf.

Product pushers usually have low technical knowledge, hence they fall back on a product which may or may not help them assist the client. Even if it does, why is one product better than another? Just like term deposits between banks, if someone is "rate shopping" it's nice while they are locked in for a 3 to 12 months. At the end of the period, if they find something that is going to pay better interest (for a term) or give them better features or a cheaper price they will switch if they don't feel that they trust the adviser.

Product is homogenous, you've always got a trustee, investment managers, lawyers and accountants in any product. Eg, Have a read through the fund managers of any industry super fund, it's the same fund managers as a retail fund! Who are of course the same for corporate superannuation funds and in a smsf with a wrap account, they are again the same...

I can use a variety of platforms including AMP, Asgard, MLC, ING, Zurich. For insurance I have a panel of 12 insurers.

Like Benny said, you'll either start in an assistant role or paraplanning role.

For banks, you'll find that unless you've completed your full Advanced Dip you won't get an adviser role. Even if you have, you'll start as an associate planner with a low limit to see clients (yes they aren't stupid and aren't going to risk clients money and being sued). Your limit and salary go up with experience.

Alot of people send their resumes to the banks, it is extremely competitive for people trying to get a foot in the door because of this.

Anyway, that's why I'm a happy dragon...

Cheers,

Dan

PS Don't forget it's all about the strategy, not about the product! Focus on this and you will become a zen planner in a few years.

Hi AsxBroker,

Again, many thanks for the advice.

I fully understand the importance in focusing on the strategies as this has always been my goal. In reality, I was never born to be a "hard sales" anyway. I have had a rather short and unpleasant experience being a salesperson before and I absolutely hated it because I was forced to sell a product that I knew would not suit my customers. Sometime I wonder how certain people could do it without regards for their targets' needs and positions. That is why I sometime resent certain real estate agents who made ridiculous claims for almost certain capital return and pushes clients to borrow to their limit. (as set by their organisation, not to the client's financial limit)

This is probably something that would put me at a slight disadvantage than other FPs as I totally understand some sort of unwillingly selling may have to be done. Hopefully this will be more clear when I have more experiences into the industry.

As for entry requirement to the banks, my girlfriend who just started working as a teller had inquired with her local branch FP recently for me. It pretty much came out exactly what you have just said. They prefer someone with all "8" modules completed before starting as a FP. That is pretty much equilvalent to completing the advanced diploma.

In fact, one more thing that I have concern with is that this FP was saying NO CLIENTS would ever trust a young guy to manage their finances. (and especially someone who "does" not look mature/old enough) I have heard of this "age discrimination" from several sources so far and the claim seem quite believable. I can confidently say I am more than mature enough, but there might be a problem with "not looking" mature enough. I'm still 26 and believe me, I STILL get checked by the guard when I enter the casino. hahah
And no, I don't gamble. Though I still enjoy the moment when I get checked and surprised the guard that I'm 26 now and get the unbelievable look from him!

Of course, I'm probably not going to be one of the youngest FP around. But still, professional presentation is something I would have to think about when it times to meet up with clients.

Many thanks again. By the way, I've already signed up for the Finsia Mentoring Program and really looking forward to meet my mentor in Mid of July. I'm sure I will gain ALOT in this program, either with education or with networks for potential job opportunities. (that is if I haven't found one by then yet) hehe

Cheers,

Temjin

While sometimes be an issue, I'm a bit surprised that this FP is saying NO CLIENTS. I know some pretty young advisers, in fact for my firm the highest producer is your age, he is turning alot of prospects into business (no, not me, I'm 29). He does have a likeable and salesy personality so that obviously helps. It's funny actually, as Business Health (a company that does consulting for FP businesses) says that the average age of a financial planner is around 58 and half of them are suppose to be retiring in the next few years.

Benny, how do you deal with these issues when they arise?

In my eyes (which others could disagree), it comes down to trust, if a client trusts you, it doesn't matter how young you are. First though, you have to earn that trust! You have to understand and care about their situation and then show them how you can improve their situation.

You don't want to scare client's (or potential clients) off by being wet behind the ears, if your over-keen it can scare clients.

I had a lovely 88 year old lady in this morning, she asked me how old I was after we had been chatting for a while and I told her and she said "I look young for my age", I thanked her for the compliment and replied to her that she was also very young looking for her age. I know that I look young when I shave, which I have to do for my job. I've also been moisturising my face since working in offices about 10 years ago as I have dry skin, I don't smoke, I don't spend excessive time outside without sunscreen and I don't drink excessive so I guess I'm lucky to have younger looking skin than my actual age (thank you moisturisers).

I'd be thanking him and telling him that he's your new best friend for thinking your 17!

Don't worry about that, there is always someone younger, older, smaller, bigger, smarter, dumber, better looking, worse looking, paid more, paid less, faster, slower than you. Don't stress over it.

Good work! FinSIA is very well rounded in finance whereas FPA is obviously more focused, a broader approach is good as it allows opportunities which you may not have thought of come your way.

Being a member of both, you'll find that FPA is trying to push strongly towards CFP mark. Which is slightly silly (IMHO) as you have to be an Authorised Representative to get, you also have to stay an AR to continue holding the CFP mark. I'm not sure how it works for CPA or CA marks, but for Masters, Grad Dip, Degree, Diplomas that you get, it doesn't matter what you do, once you get awarded those courses you get to keep them for life, no questions asked. If your a CFP and leave being an AR, you lose your CFP mark...Any recognition for all that study disappearing into thin air.

You should still get you girlfriend to find out who the HR person is for financial planning at her bank. Even if you get to have a coffee with them to find out more clearly what they are looking for and what you need to get your foot in their door and what roles they may have for you.

Cheers,

Dan

I think that is spot on. I try to avoid anything about the product in my interviews until it is time to sign up. If the client is worried about fee's or performance, i straight out tell them that they can find a cheaper fund manager and they can find better returns, but they won't find me anywhere else, and clients sign up a lot more than they walk away!

It's a great sentiment Temjin, and if you can pull it off your clients will have a lot more confidence in you.

Your dealer group on the other hand will generally be pushing you to be a salesman

You need to find the comfortable place in the middle, give good advice, make a lot of sales! Then you'll have a successful career!

Well, in merely just a few months since June, the whole "employment prospect" picture just completely changed.

Having completed my DFP and attained my RG146 since July, I have had ALOT OF DIFFICULTIES trying to secure an entry level role in the financial service industry.

When I started to plan my career change, I have done my research on the employment prospect of the industry. Various sources have indicated that there is a shortgage of financial planners and especially paraplanners, and even people here (and other sources) told me it is relatively easy to find a position once I have attained my DFP.

Unfortunately, in just 10 months later (since Jan), it went from great job prospect to an industry now trying to downsize and/or halting all recruitment completely.

Personally, I have practically done everything possible to put myself in the most advantageous position than other candidates. With assistance from my two mentors (one from a major bank working as a state manager of the FP division), I have refined my resume/cover letter many times and have extensively prepared for the interviews through role playing.

A bit of recent history.

Out of the applications I have sent so far, I only end up in two interviews with one for a para planning graduate program for a major bank and another entry level para planner for a private firm.

For the graduate program, I had done a massive amount of preparations. I pretty much prepared answers to practically any questions that the interviewers could think of, and even my mentor had given me interview questions that they use for recruiting financial planners. It was extremely competitive as there were over 1800 applicants and the bank was only hiring 20s graduate nationally. I passed all the stage to the final interview where only 80 were short listed from the 1800. Unfortunately, I did not get it because they told me they were only taking in ONE GRADUATE this year for Brisbane only. I had a lot of confidences in this and I felt I did a great job in the interview, but I never knew it was this competitive. They may even have reduced the number of roles available half way through the selection process.

The other interview was with a private firm and I thought I had a much greater chance as my interview was simply perfect. I was short listed down to 4 applicants (amount hundreds) but still lost to someone who have years of relevant industry background. However, I received a lot of positive feedback after the interview and I knew I did put up a good fight despite I am at a disadvantaged position due to nil relevant experiences/background.

I was told that I was extremely close and would have got the job if the winner applicant did not take up the offer. When I asked what I could have done better, he pretty much said I have done everything that exceed his expectation and there is nothing I could have done better. He praised for my passion and for me bring so proactive in trying to get into the industry. I was the only applicant with professional mentors and also raised an interest in their internal company flag product. He was quite surprised I had two mentors too.

Unfortunately, I still did not get it purely due to my lack of relevant experiences. So despite my best effort, I was facing a much stronger pool of applicants. I suspect this will be the same when I try to apply for other similar positions in the near future, and I'm seeing them being advertised less and less.

I'm getting really desperate now. What more can I do? The only thing I haven't done is cold calling every single FP companies in Brisbane for an expression of interest. I am preparing to do that relatively soon and this would be my last card par from going to interstate.

For now, I am really not sure if this is the right moment to do this. With the status of the economy, I may be too unrealistic at my attempts to make a career change right now. This is regardless of how much effort I put in. It may take years for the economy to revive and I cannot wait that long, and yes, I do think it will take that long as there will be a severe global recession and I do not think Australia will be immune from it.

I'm sorry if I sound so negative here. I had huge amount of confidences before I started pursing this career change. But so much have changed since then and it has really changed my thinking about all this.

So thanks for reading guys. It's a long post but I thought I had to give an update or rant a bit.

Hey Temjin,

The first thing i would say is most companies in the industry aren't this organised, so they really don't start hiring for next year until around November, or even until February next year. When i used to apply i used to notice huge spikes in November and Feb.

Secondly, you will find it hard with no industry experience to get a paraplanning role. I'm impressed you even got to interview stage. My suggestion would be to go for assistant type roles or client service officer roles. Do this for 6 months and then apply for the paraplanning roles again and you will have a much better shot. This industry isn't one where they like to take a risk with you, they want to see someone else has taken it on you first, which is really silly given the amount of turnover there is in the industry as a whole.

I'm not sure if i discussed it before, but i had set out around 50 resumes the first time i tried to get into the industry and didn't get a single response. The second time i tried, i sent another 50 and got 1, which is the job i ended up getting as a CSO. The company showed a lot of faith in me hiring a scientist with no experience, and we have worked hard with each other to now make me one of the best planners in my office in only 3 years, while a lot of the other young planners who came from a CSO role are really struggling.

So don't lose faith, just get your foot in the door at the bottom and the whole job market will then open up.

Ben

Hi Temjin,

There may also be some downsizing in Sydney in the backoffice roles in finance as companies reduce staff count, for frontoffice roles they are still there but looking for experienced staff.

When looking for a job, unless you have an Honours, don't apply for Graduate Positions, the problem here is that uni students can punch in "graduate" into seek or mycareer and get a list to apply for (I just got 900 for "graduate" in Brisbane on Seek...). You are much more unique.

Stop changing your resume as well, that's just wasting your time and frustrating you further. Stick to the one which landed you the interview with the private firm. A resume is a bit like a brochure, it's the main points, though in the interview your personality and enthusiasm seals the deal. It's like going to a car dealership, they give you a brochure which gets your interest and then if you take it for a test drive (interview) it doesn't handle well you cut the lemon loose and jump in the next one which takes your fancy. For your resume make sure it's two pages, if it's bigger it's cumbersome to go through, if it's smaller it looks weak.

You've probably already figured out on your resume, you want to say the main/important bits, ie, name, DOB, address, experience, qualifications and hobbies/achievements. Experience wise, I know your a bit light on for this industry but you've probably worked before? Put down your previous roles and bullet point three or four of the responsibilities. For qualifications you basically want to say you've just finished your DFS and you are going to continue to complete your ADFS. For hobbies and or achievements make sure it's a team/group thing (if you play tennis, put it down as doubles!!! and don't put down any weird freaky stuff - Keep It Simple).

If you can't seem to find the roles on seek or mycareer, try going to large companies websites and finding what vacancies they currently have, if your not sure of companies names you can go to yellowpages.com.au and search on words like financial planning, funds management, insurance, banking, superannuation, etc.

If your not finding the exact Financial Planning role you want, you can start in a finance organisation as junior/admin/customer service, build your experience and let them pay for your ADFS. Don't bother cold calling, stick to the internet as you can do it at any time (3am if you want) whereas calling is usually between 9am and 5pm, costs a phone call and the chances are the right person to speak to is in a meeting, on holidays or they'll tell you to apply online anyway. If your still struggling, go for part-time roles as these would be great because you'll have more time to complete your ADFS quicker! (Just find out if they'll still re-imburse the full amount, or half if your a part-timer or some firms won't, remember to tell them that you are keen to move from part-timer to full-timer when it's available).

Where abouts in QLD are you?

In regards to DFP, DFP was 8 subjects and a course ONLY issued by the Financial Planning Association of Australia (FPA). You have completed your DFS which is 4 subjects, when you have completed the next 4 subjects you have completed your ADFS which is equivalent to DFP.

Don't worry, confidence is important, so is determination. When I originally started in stockbroking, I probably applied for a couple hundred roles as a junior sh*t-kicker in pretty much any finance company. I remember in January 1999 printing off my resume and a covering letter, enveloping them and hand-delivering them to 80 stockbroking companies in Sydney's CBD. I wouldn't suggest doing this as Brisbane is smaller and the internet is a much better way of doing things.

Ironically, I got a job at Computershare as one of the girls I was doing my FinSIA Dip Fin Mkts with was working there at the time. One stockbroking company came back to me in April 1999 and offered me a job.

Go and search the internet for those different finance companies and apply on their websites for the roles which you think you've got a good chance and you'd be good at.

Cheers,

Dan